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Multiple (Newbie?) issues
03-18-2016, 03:00 AM
Post: #1
Question Multiple (Newbie?) issues
First of all, I want to mention that I am a very big newbie to the whole Linux world and pretty much have never used anything in my life but MS-DOS and Windows so I might just not have any clue what I'm doing.
Anyways, I am attempting to install DeLi(cate) for the very first time and am using trying to use the 0.1alpha5 version ISO file from the website. I've tried my best to troubleshoot things myself before coming here to ask for help. I've attempted to install this using pretty much any option the installer tries to offer me and am having multiple issues. Before I get into the issues and errors, I'm getting allow me to give some background information. It is my plan or desire to eventually try and test out this Linux distro on some seriously old computers that I have laying around my bedroom. For now though I am attempting to test the waters using only VirtualBox. My thought process was that I should try to use it on a fake computer before trying it on the real thing. Now the two real computers I am wanting to install it on have very low specs. So I'm attempting to set up VirtualBox with the same or similar low specs; so as to simulate when I try to do this for real. Therefore like the real computers I have the VirtualBox VM configured to have 16MB of RAM with 6MB of video memory and a 512MB hard drive. The real computers actually have 16MB of RAM, probably only 2MB or so of video memory and 384MB hard drives but when I tried to set some of the settings lower in VirtualBox, it complained for whatever reasons. The two real computers are currently Windows 95 computers with extra DOS 6.2.2 on the side for when games need real mode as opposed to protected mode when Windows 95 is running. As the DeLi(cate) website claimed that 14MB is needed for a minimal GUI setup, this distro of Linux appeared better than many others I found while attempting to search the web. I am attempting to install a very small type of Linux distro on these computers that could run very basic things. For example, typing plain text files, doing simple math with a calculator, maybe FTP or IRC if possible. I would not need either of the two computers to actually browse the web, but if possible with even text based or link based browsers, I'll take what I could get. Really the only Internet related tasks I'd like to do with the machines would be IRC and maybe FTP. I don't need any GUI for the FTP either so for the FTP part, I could do some type of command line method. Being able to do some type of basic applications in the most simplest or smallest GUI possible under the computer's poor low specs would be nice too.
Now to the issues I'm having with my installation and usage attempts. I've set up the VirtualBox VM to emulate a 2.4 Linux kernel and have mounted the 0.1alpha5 ISO from the website as the virtual cdrom drive for the VM. I boot the VM and run cfdisk to create two partitions on the virtual 512MB hard drive. First I create a Primary swap partition of type 82. I set the size of this partition as 64MB (I've also tried 16MB or 32MB on previous attempts). I next create a second Primary partition of type 83. I set this partition to be the remaining MB left over. I use the option in cfdisk to write the tables and quit. Then I run deliinstall. I choose "us" for the first question. It then asks Using /dev/hda1 as swap partition and I choose Yes. It then asks me if I want to use mkswap. As I marked it as swap type 82 I chose No for this. Next it asks me to choose a partition for the /root filesystem and I choose /dev/hda2 - Linux native 450MB as it is the only option presented. It then asks me if I want to have a separate /boot partition. I've attempted to use both options at some point and it does not seem to matter. It then asks me to format /dev/hda2 with either Ext3 or Ext2. I don't know what either of those mean and during my attempts I've tried both options. It then asks me which installation mode to use. I've been using Installation from local media on all my attempts thus far. I did not know what the other option meant. At this point it asks me if I want to Install the base packages using pacman or Unpack preinstalled base with tar. If I choose the first option then on the next two screens when it seems to ask for locale info I am not given any choices to select. It just shows an ok prompt. This is where this choice seems to get buggy for me and the rest of the process kind of fails out. However if I choose the second option of Unpack preinstalled base with tar the installation seems to continue normal and then does appear to properly ask for locale information on the next screens. So for now I've been choosing that option in my attempts. It then asks Where are the packages and if it should scan the cdrom. I choose Yes here. Then it asks for locale language and I choose en. It then asks to choose locale variant and I choose en_US.UTF-8. It then asks me to enter a password for the root and I provide one and verify it again on the next screen. It then asks if I want to add a user. I choose Yes. I name it Kurt and provide a password and verify it. It then asks if I want to install GRUB boot loader and I say Yes. On the next screen it asks me to specify the target device. I don't actually know what this means but it already had /dev/hda in the box so I left it alone and chose Ok. The next screen asks if I want to install LOADLIN. In my attempts I've tried both options and it does not seem to change anything. It then says Only minimal system is currently installed and asks if I want to install additional software and to select yes to have default package sets installed. I chose Yes here. At this point I am asked to remove the cdrom and reboot the system. I unmounts the ISO from VirtualBox and reboot the machine by telling VirtualBox to send a CTRL+ALT+DEL keyboard signal. After the VM reboots I am presented with two choices. Either DeLi(cate) or DeLi(cate) [acpi=off]. I choose DeLi(cate). After a bunch of text scrolls on the screen I am asked to login. I type Kurt and press enter and when asked for a password, I type the one I typed for the user Kurt when it asked during the install. In all my attempts and no matter what I set the password to during the install it always says Login incorrect. I've never been able to login with the user account. So instead I login as root and provide the root password I provided during setup. It successfully logs me in as root and provides me the command prompt. At this point I seem unable to do, well really anything. I've tried to find or start any GUI if there is any. The only thing I can seem to do is run the delisetup or setup commands. It lets me run the pwd command to tell me I'm at root, but I can't run the cd command to change directories. That or their is no directories to change to. If I type the ls command, nothing happens. If I attempt to run delisetup and choose the fourth option for Setup Window Manager, nothing happens.
So long story short, I don't seem to be able to do anything or login as a regular user. As I said at the beginning this is pretty much my first time ever setting up a Linux distro from scratch and I admit I have no idea what I am doing or doing wrong. Where is the GUI that I need the 14MB for and how do I get to it? Why can't I login or setup a user? Does this distro come with any default command line or gui programs and if so where are they? Please feel free to respond to this thread or PM me with any help or to explain why I'm an idiot because I've been trying to figure this all out for almost two hours now. Is their some files that I'm missing or configuration options during the install that I am missing or doing incorrectly? I'll take any help I can get and if needed feel free to ask me for any more information regarding my VirtualBox VM or my two real computers. I figured I'd wait until I can learn how to run this in VirtualBox before I try my real hardware. Should I just skip this idea and try the real Windows 95 computers?
Sorry for the overly long post/message.

Thanks,
KurtD0g
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04-03-2016, 12:54 AM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2016 01:22 AM by tavvva.)
Post: #2
RE: Multiple (Newbie?) issues
Hello KurtD0g and welcome!

Sorry for no reply, for some reason the forum didn't mark/show me your post as unread. Don't know why.

(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  First of all, I want to mention that I am a very big newbie to the whole Linux world and pretty much have never used anything in my life but MS-DOS and Windows so I might just not have any clue what I'm doing.

That should not be a problem :]


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  Anyways, I am attempting to install DeLi(cate) for the very first time and am using trying to use the 0.1alpha5 version ISO file from the website. I've tried my best to troubleshoot things myself before coming here to ask for help. I've attempted to install this using pretty much any option the installer tries to offer me and am having multiple issues. Before I get into the issues and errors, I'm getting allow me to give some background information. It is my plan or desire to eventually try and test out this Linux distro on some seriously old computers that I have laying around my bedroom. For now though I am attempting to test the waters using only VirtualBox. My thought process was that I should try to use it on a fake computer before trying it on the real thing. Now the two real computers I am wanting to install it on have very low specs. So I'm attempting to set up VirtualBox with the same or similar low specs; so as to simulate when I try to do this for real. Therefore like the real computers I have the VirtualBox VM configured to have 16MB of RAM with 6MB of video memory and a 512MB hard drive. The real computers actually have 16MB of RAM, probably only 2MB or so of video memory and 384MB hard drives but when I tried to set some of the settings lower in VirtualBox, it complained for whatever reasons. The two real computers are currently Windows 95 computers with extra DOS 6.2.2 on the side for when games need real mode as opposed to protected mode when Windows 95 is running. As the DeLi(cate) website claimed that 14MB is needed for a minimal GUI setup, this distro of Linux appeared better than many others I found while attempting to search the web. I am attempting to install a very small type of Linux distro on these computers that could run very basic things. For example, typing plain text files, doing simple math with a calculator, maybe FTP or IRC if possible. I would not need either of the two computers to actually browse the web, but if possible with even text based or link based browsers, I'll take what I could get. Really the only Internet related tasks I'd like to do with the machines would be IRC and maybe FTP. I don't need any GUI for the FTP either so for the FTP part, I could do some type of command line method. Being able to do some type of basic applications in the most simplest or smallest GUI possible under the computer's poor low specs would be nice too.

Yeah. In that case DeLi(cate) can satisfy your needs.


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  Now to the issues I'm having with my installation and usage attempts. I've set up the VirtualBox VM to emulate a 2.4 Linux kernel and have mounted the 0.1alpha5 ISO from the website as the virtual cdrom drive for the VM. I boot the VM and run cfdisk to create two partitions on the virtual 512MB hard drive. First I create a Primary swap partition of type 82. I set the size of this partition as 64MB (I've also tried 16MB or 32MB on previous attempts). I next create a second Primary partition of type 83. I set this partition to be the remaining MB left over. I use the option in cfdisk to write the tables and quit. Then I run deliinstall. I choose "us" for the first question. It then asks Using /dev/hda1 as swap partition and I choose Yes. It then asks me if I want to use mkswap. As I marked it as swap type 82 I chose No for this.

And that was wrong :] You need to initialize the swap partition with mkswap (at least once after creating/modifying the disc layout with cfdisk). It creates internal structures on the swap partition to allow it to act like a swap space. Creation of the swap partition is neither equal to initialization of swap with mkswap nor activation with swapon :] Without swap you'll be hardly able to continue without strange issues caused by insufficient memory.


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  Next it asks me to choose a partition for the /root filesystem and I choose /dev/hda2 - Linux native 450MB as it is the only option presented. It then asks me if I want to have a separate /boot partition. I've attempted to use both options at some point and it does not seem to matter.

You should choose No, since you have no more suitable (linux type) partitions left for /boot. The only reason why I keep the selector there in such case is to tell the user it's possible to have a separate boot partition.


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  It then asks me to format /dev/hda2 with either Ext3 or Ext2. I don't know what either of those mean and during my attempts I've tried both options.

Ext3 - more recent and more featured ... has journal = behaves better in case of unwanted reboots / power failures ... but it's also a bit slower and consumes more resources
Ext2 - less featured ... requires filesystem check after unwanted power cycle, but its a bit faster


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  It then asks me which installation mode to use. I've been using Installation from local media on all my attempts thus far. I did not know what the other option meant. At this point it asks me if I want to Install the base packages using pacman or Unpack preinstalled base with tar. If I choose the first option then on the next two screens when it seems to ask for locale info I am not given any choices to select.

Consequence of insufficient RAM because of the missing swap ... should be ok, if you run mkswap when asked :]


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  It just shows an ok prompt. This is where this choice seems to get buggy for me and the rest of the process kind of fails out. However if I choose the second option of Unpack preinstalled base with tar the installation seems to continue normal and then does appear to properly ask for locale information on the next screens. So for now I've been choosing that option in my attempts. It then asks Where are the packages and if it should scan the cdrom. I choose Yes here. Then it asks for locale language and I choose en. It then asks to choose locale variant and I choose en_US.UTF-8. It then asks me to enter a password for the root and I provide one and verify it again on the next screen. It then asks if I want to add a user. I choose Yes. I name it Kurt and provide a password and verify it. It then asks if I want to install GRUB boot loader and I say Yes. On the next screen it asks me to specify the target device. I don't actually know what this means but it already had /dev/hda in the box so I left it alone and chose Ok. The next screen asks if I want to install LOADLIN.

You should choose NO in case of LOADLIN, since you have no DOS installed on the harddrive.


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  In my attempts I've tried both options and it does not seem to change anything. It then says Only minimal system is currently installed and asks if I want to install additional software and to select yes to have default package sets installed. I chose Yes here. At this point I am asked to remove the cdrom and reboot the system.

Also consequence of insufficient RAM. The additional sets are installed with pacman and pacman needs RAM.


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  I unmounts the ISO from VirtualBox and reboot the machine by telling VirtualBox to send a CTRL+ALT+DEL keyboard signal. After the VM reboots I am presented with two choices. Either DeLi(cate) or DeLi(cate) [acpi=off]. I choose DeLi(cate). After a bunch of text scrolls on the screen I am asked to login. I type Kurt and press enter and when asked for a password, I type the one I typed for the user Kurt when it asked during the install. In all my attempts and no matter what I set the password to during the install it always says Login incorrect.

That might be a consequence of insuff. RAM too ... try it again and let me know ...


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  I've never been able to login with the user account. So instead I login as root and provide the root password I provided during setup. It successfully logs me in as root and provides me the command prompt. At this point I seem unable to do, well really anything. I've tried to find or start any GUI if there is any.

Nope .... without additional sets you have really the absolute minimum. No GUI. That can be installed if you have a working network connection (choose the PCnet Fast III network card in VirtualBox and then use delisetup to configure the network). But ... it's easier to install the whole system again with the additional sets :]


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  The only thing I can seem to do is run the delisetup or setup commands. It lets me run the pwd command to tell me I'm at root, but I can't run the cd command to change directories. That or their is no directories to change to. If I type the ls command, nothing happens. If I attempt to run delisetup and choose the fourth option for Setup Window Manager, nothing happens.

That might be caused by incomplete unpacking of the rootfs during the installation (caused by insuff. memory) or ... again ... not enough memory after booting to the installed system (the swap is still missing).


(03-18-2016 03:00 AM)KurtD0g Wrote:  So long story short, I don't seem to be able to do anything or login as a regular user. As I said at the beginning this is pretty much my first time ever setting up a Linux distro from scratch and I admit I have no idea what I am doing or doing wrong. Where is the GUI that I need the 14MB for and how do I get to it? Why can't I login or setup a user? Does this distro come with any default command line or gui programs and if so where are they? Please feel free to respond to this thread or PM me with any help or to explain why I'm an idiot because I've been trying to figure this all out for almost two hours now.

DeLi(cate) is an old school distro and therefore might be hostile for new linux users. I admit that. Hope this helps.
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04-05-2016, 07:44 PM
Post: #3
RE: Multiple (Newbie?) issues
Thank you for your reply and I am attempting to follow the directions presented here. Sadly thus far I seem to be having the exact same issues. During the installation I have now chosen yes on the mkswap question. I seem to have the same end results though. In order to help me troubleshoot the issue I also just for kicks changed the amount of RAM in VirtualBox from 16MB to 1024MB but this does not solve any of my issues. Of course my real machine that I wanted to put this on only has 16MB, I was just trying to see if things would come out differently. Also is 512MB hard drive enough space? How big should the swap be compared to the rest of the space. I've attempted to use 320MB for swap and the the rest for the other partition in case maybe I made swap too small. Either way I'm in the exact same boat as I was before. I'm still not getting anything to work. Maybe as a Linux newbie, I should choose a different distro?
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04-06-2016, 05:26 AM
Post: #4
RE: Multiple (Newbie?) issues
If it helps I attempted to record a video of myself attempting to install the distro. Since I might not be good at explaining what I am doing wrong. I went ahead and uploaded it to https://youtu.be/qRsYvdV3Wn8
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04-08-2016, 12:33 AM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2016 12:42 AM by tavvva.)
Post: #5
RE: Multiple (Newbie?) issues
(04-05-2016 07:44 PM)KurtD0g Wrote:  Thank you for your reply and I am attempting to follow the directions presented here. Sadly thus far I seem to be having the exact same issues. During the installation I have now chosen yes on the mkswap question. I seem to have the same end results though. In order to help me troubleshoot the issue I also just for kicks changed the amount of RAM in VirtualBox from 16MB to 1024MB but this does not solve any of my issues. Of course my real machine that I wanted to put this on only has 16MB, I was just trying to see if things would come out differently. Also is 512MB hard drive enough space? How big should the swap be compared to the rest of the space. I've attempted to use 320MB for swap and the the rest for the other partition in case maybe I made swap too small. Either way I'm in the exact same boat as I was before. I'm still not getting anything to work. Maybe as a Linux newbie, I should choose a different distro?

I've seen the youtube video ... congrats - you found a bug. The username needs to have all the letters small. You entered capital 'K' and the useradd command then failed to create the user ... the problem is that it doesn't say a word about the failure and that needs to be fixed in the installer.

Regarding the swap space .... I believe 64MB should be enough. Even if you give it more, it would take ages to swap if so much space is really needed. That means it is better not to run apps taking a lot of RAM or running multiple apps at once.

And now the hdd space. I somehow forgot to mention that 420MB is insufficient for the rootfs if you want to install the default package sets. The minimal system takes ~180MB on the rootfs and with the default package sets you definitely need much more than 500MB just for the rootfs. If your drive is smaller, then you need to install the minimal system and then skip the installation of default package sets. Once booted in the installed system, you need to mount the cdrom again and install all the required packages by hand to get a graphical system, but your options would be very limited. The recommended disc space is 4GB and you gave it 10x smaller space. I think you can run Xorg server there with a small subset of graphical applications, but you need to choose carefully :]

To mount the cdrom, you need to call the following or similar command under the root account (where /dev/hdb is the device representing the cdrom ... might be /dev/hdc or /dev/hdd depending on the jumpers on the drive) ...

mount /dev/hdb /cdrom

and after that you should be able to install additional packages with pacman ...

The following 4 packages should give you the graphical user interface:

pacman -S xorg-server icewm xterm slim

... and once you configure Xorg in the delisetup and test the config, you can enable the slim service in the delisetup too, so that you get the graphical login screen after the boot. If you don't want that, you can skip the installation of 'slim' and start the GUI with the startx command issued from the 'kurt' account.

anyway ... with the above packages it should take ~250MB of space ...

in the GUI you can use xterm for doing admin tasks if you gain the root privileges from the 'kurt' account by typing su and giving it the root password. Note that delisetup gives you limited options if you have no privileges for doing admin tasks.
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04-09-2016, 03:17 AM
Post: #6
RE: Multiple (Newbie?) issues
Thank you for the reply and continued help on my installation. Using the options and commands you gave me, I finally was able to successfully install DeLi(cate) and get the login and GUI desktop interface to load. Took me awhile but I guess this is why they call it a learning experience. Smile Now I will just have to figure out what applications I need/want and how many of them I can install using what little space I have left on the hard drive. Before that though, I wanted to ask if it is possible to change the screen resolution in the desktop GUI environment. Right now it seems to be too high. I'm not sure what it is but it kind of looks like maybe 1024x768. Is their a way to change it to a lower range? Perhaps I could somehow use a 800x600 or a 640x480?
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