Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
old pentium
04-05-2013, 12:10 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 02:16 PM by lucinos.)
Post: #1
old pentium
hi

I have an old pentium 166MMX with 32MB RAM that is in very good shape as hardware. Originally it had windows 95 and was going quite well. Now it has windows 98 and it works but too slow.

this of course is my old machine and I do not do anything with it. But since I do not throw to garbage my old computers I would like to do something nice with it.

going back to 95 is not an option for many reasons. (The only cool thing I can do with 95 that DOS is not able, are some games like old starcraft)

I tried some OSes with liveCD and I was only able to run KolibriOS and FreeDOS that way. KolibriOS is nice but I see no point installing it. I was very pleased with FreeDOS (something strange, only 1.0 has liveCD option, not the new version, and I found 1.0 only on piratebay) but there is no point to just use FreeDOS.

My plan is to dual boot FreeDOS with Linux. From what I searched, the only interesting distribution for that machine is Delicate.

How good or bad will my machine be with Delicate? (I will be satisfied if it will not be worse than 98), as you see my machine is above minimum but below recommended.

How easy would be to do this dual boot with FreeDOS?

Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-05-2013, 01:50 PM
Post: #2
RE: old pentium
(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  I have an old pentium 166MMX with 32MB RAM

How good or bad will my machine be with Delicate? (I will be satisfied if it will not be worse than 98), as you see my machine is above minimum but below recommended.

I guess, it should work with the tiny X server, but I don't know if you can start one or more X programs without swapping, but there are many command line tools and ncurses programs.
Make sure you have at least some swap (64-128MB?).


Quote:How easy would be to do this dual boot with FreeDOS?

It is configurable in /boot/grub/menu.lst (other distris name it grub.conf)

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeDOS#Booting .
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-05-2013, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 02:32 PM by tavvva.)
Post: #3
RE: old pentium
(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  hi

Welcome!

(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  I have an old pentium 166MMX with 32MB RAM that is in very good shape as hardware. Originally it had windows 95 and was going quite well. Now it has windows 98 and it works but too slow.

The configuration is still pretty nice, even when it is below the recommendations. It's hard to guess if DeLi(cate) can perform better than Win98. I haven't done any speed comparison, but the overall speed always depends on the set of features in use. Win95 is less featured than Win98 and that's the reason why it is faster. Try and you'll see.

(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  this of course is my old machine and I do not do anything with it. But since I do not throw to garbage my old computers I would like to do something nice with it.

going back to 95 is not an option for many reasons. (The only cool thing I can do with 95 that DOS is not able, are some games like old starcraft)

I tried some OSes with liveCD and I was only available to run KolibriOS and FreeDOS that way. KolibriOS is nice but I see no point installing it. I was very pleased with FreeDOS (something strange, only 1.0 has liveCD option, not the new version, and I found 1.0 only on piratebay) but there is no point to just use FreeDOS.

My plan is to dual boot FreeDOS with Linux. From what I searched, the only interesting distribution for that machine is Delicate.

Yeah, like Tom already stated ... it's not a problem at all. Just give FreeDOS a separate partition and then chainload the partition bootsector with grub. Don't hesitate to join the IRC channel or ask here if you have any questions. It's a matter of one GRUB configuration entry. I can do the installation with you, if you have any online messenger (Jabber, IRC, ICQ, yahoo, ...)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-05-2013, 08:08 PM
Post: #4
RE: old pentium
(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  I have an old pentium 166MMX with 32MB RAM that is in very good shape as hardware. Originally it had windows 95 and was going quite well. Now it has windows 98 and it works but too slow.

this of course is my old machine and I do not do anything with it. But since I do not throw to garbage my old computers I would like to do something nice with it.

I have a laptop that's 500 MHz and 64 MB RAM. I know the feeling. First thing to look into is if you can get it more RAM someplace. It can do a lot for performance if you can max it out.

I'm assuming you've looked at KernelEx ( http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/130936-kernelex-452/ ) in conjunction with running Windows.

(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  I was very pleased with FreeDOS (something strange, only 1.0 has liveCD option, not the new version, and I found 1.0 only on piratebay) but there is no point to just use FreeDOS.

I tried FreeDOS on my machine and a number of other operating systems. Wasn't too thrilled with FreeDOS because there weren't as many Open Source programs to run as on other operating systems. Also, you need to find drivers for everything and if it's newer hardware it can be hard to find or non-existent. I have a lot of old DOS programs, but not all of them worked on FreeDOS and I had to end up rebooting the system a lot (either because something crashed memory or needed a different driver option loaded).

If you're interested in FreeDOS, you may want to check XFDOS:
http://code.google.com/p/nanox-microwind...wiki/XFDOS
It's FreeDOS with nano-x and FLTK programs compiled for it. There's a XFDOS live CD, but it doesn't have all the drivers and memory managers FreeDOS has. If I remember properly, I ended up having to download drivers and memory managers to install to my system anyway when I was running FreeDOS. The FreeDOS disk's drivers were out of date at the time. If you're interested in what drivers I used, I have it documented at my web site.

(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  My plan is to dual boot FreeDOS with Linux. From what I searched, the only interesting distribution for that machine is Delicate.

I'm running FreeBSD on my machine right now. I find it more responsive than Linux and it has more Open Source programs than FreeDOS. There's a live disk for FreeBSD called Frenzy. Don't know how well it works on older systems. I just used the FreeBSD install disk. The drawback to FreeBSD is that it doesn't have as many drivers for hardware as Linux. If you want framebuffer support or midi support or to run programs like wvdial, you're better off with Linux.

Delicate Linux is a good distribution for older systems and I definitely recommend it. Other options include Debian and INX.
With Debian, install it using the netinst disk and sneakernet the rest of the distribution to the system if you don't have Internet access: http://crunchbanglinux.org/wiki/howto/sn...g_statler. INX ( http://inx.maincontent.net/ ) is no longer maintained, but might be worth looking at. It's completely command line based (no X Windows) and includes tutorials for working with the command line. I believe it was ported to work within Debian too at some point.

Recommend you check out
http://kmandla.wordpress.com/
There aren't any new posts, but plenty of good information for working with older systems in the archives. Deli Linux (predecessor to Delicate) was mentioned at the site.

(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  How good or bad will my machine be with Delicate? (I will be satisfied if it will not be worse than 98), as you see my machine is above minimum but below recommended.

Depends completely on what programs you run. I have some information on lightweight programs I've run across at my site ( http://www.distasis.com/cpp/dlin.htm ). You could probably run X Windows if you use a lightweight window manager (possibly jwm or dwm). Other options are trying to use the framebuffer or nano-x. A lot of gtk+ and wxwidgets based programs can run slower or come up slowly on older machines. I've been trying to stick with programs using lighter GUI frameworks like sdl, fltk and ncurses. I noticed that a programming editor like fxite (which uses fox toolkit and the scintilla editing component) starts up much faster than my current favorite programming editor scite (which uses gtk+ 2 and the scintilla editing component). I think flxine runs much faster than gxine on my systems. If you need recommendations for lightweight software or want an idea of what might run faster or slower, let me know.

(04-05-2013 12:10 PM)lucinos Wrote:  How easy would be to do this dual boot with FreeDOS?
Another option is DOSBox on a Linux (or BSD) machine instead of FreeDOS. If you can get framebuffer working, you can run DOSBox outside of X. There's also DOSEmu which runs on Linux and uses the FreeDOS code. It works similar to dropping to DOS from Windows, so need need to reboot to FreeDOS.

Hope you'll keep us posted on how things go with keeping your system working.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2013, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2013 08:53 PM by lucinos.)
Post: #5
Wink RE: old pentium
Thank you all very much.

I am not planing to do anything before Easter (not the one that just passed but still the one in 2013 Smile )

@lmemsm
I do not see how KernelEx has to do anything with my case, 98 is already too slow, why I would want to run XP applications on top of that?
It is true that DOS sucks at open source software and of course every software is two decades old or more but then the machine is from 90s. DOS is the most lightweight OS I know that has quite a lot software although old. With DOS many games and some other things like Basic is available and that is quite cool for such a lightweight OS. When I tried last year FreeDOS with liveCD it did everything I expected excellently. It is true I did not tried it very much nor something really difficult.

Thank you about FXDOS, I did not know about it. It is really strange that FreeDOS is keeping LiveCD secret. The even funnier is that I just saw that now they have again the 1.0 edition on because of "popular demand" (I suspect that the popular demand was about the nice LiveCD option) but with no LiveCD option!

The point of dual boot with DOS instead of DOSBox or DOSEmu is that you have a really fast boot and all resources are available as there is no other OS. DOSBox is an emulator and I did not know that I can run it outside of X but even that way I really doubt it will have good performance. I love DOSBox as for old games on new machine is excellent (for some games there is the even better options of SCUMMVM). DOSEmu also can be useful in some special cases (as you run real DOS in virtual machine, not en emulator) but as I said you need first to boot to other OS.

I have already rejected all linux distributions with the exception of delicate, so do not tell be about other distributions unless you have a really good point about them.
BSD could be an alternative that I know nothing about. What are the minimum requirements for Frenzy? Last year that I searched about various OSes almost all of them had 64 MB RAM or more minimum requirement for liveCD. It would be a surprise to me if it can run on 32MB (from the little search I did they do not give minimum requirements at least in a place I could easily find them)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2013, 02:58 PM
Post: #6
RE: old pentium
(04-06-2013 08:33 PM)lucinos Wrote:  I do not see how KernelEx has to do anything with my case, 98 is already too slow, why I would want to run XP applications on top of that?

If 98 is too slow, it probably won't be that helpful. There are several ways to speed up Windows systems. If one or more of those techniques works, then 98 with KernelEx might be a viable option. Was also thinking, you might find a similar project or something from the project might work with Windows 95.

(04-06-2013 08:33 PM)lucinos Wrote:  DOS is the most lightweight OS I know that has quite a lot software although old.

Running a Linux or BSD system from the command line or via framebuffer can have comparable speeds to running DOS if you're careful about program choices. DOS does boot faster than the Linux and BSD systems though. I did find myself rebooting much more often with DOS than other systems, because I kept needing to change drivers and memory managers to run different applications.

(04-06-2013 08:33 PM)lucinos Wrote:  Thank you about FXDOS, I did not know about it. It is really strange that FreeDOS is keeping LiveCD secret. The even funnier is that I just saw that now they have again the 1.0 edition on because of "popular demand" (I suspect that the popular demand was about the nice LiveCD option) but with no LiveCD option!

The FreeDOS installation disks aren't usually up-to-date with the latest drivers, memory managers, etc. You usually have to download the latest separately and update your system. XFDOS is not a project of the FreeDOS group. It's put together from FreeDOS by the developer of DOSUSB (one of the few USB drivers for DOS).

I should mention that there have been some threads on some of the DOS forums about the possiblities of developers eliminating DOS support for gcc and some of the GNU tools like automake.

(04-06-2013 08:33 PM)lucinos Wrote:  I have already rejected all linux distributions with the exception of delicate, so do not tell be about other distributions unless you have a really good point about them.

The reason for the rejection of all other systems is what exactly? If you've already decided on Delicate, then by all means go with that. It's a very good choice.

(04-06-2013 08:33 PM)lucinos Wrote:  Last year that I searched about various OSes almost all of them had 64 MB RAM or more minimum requirement for liveCD.
So you're looking for a live CD, not a distribution for your hard drive? That's an important distinction to clarify as it really changes the options available to you.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2013, 09:09 PM
Post: #7
RE: old pentium
@lmemsm

I thought that gcc had already eliminate support for DOS. As I said I do not care for DOS to be up to date, I want it only for an old computer and for old programs. Of course I am not content only with that, especially when 98 is together with DOS (so if that was only there would be no need to remove windows). That is why I want linux.

LiveCD is a nice option especially when you want to experiment. But I said that only KolibriOS and DOS could run that way. So I will have to install.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | DeLi(cate) Linux | Return to Top | Return to Content | Lite (Archive) Mode | RSS Syndication