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(im)possible idea? Java?
02-27-2012, 01:46 PM
Post: #1
(im)possible idea? Java?
I don't know if it's a good idea so that's why I started this topic.
Is it a good idea to make a kind of Java package? Is it too heavy? And which 'clone' can or should be used? The reason why I'm thinking of this is that there are a lot of small java programs (I was thinking of small mobile applications) some of them are using less than 100K. So who knows what's possible?

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02-27-2012, 03:49 PM
Post: #2
RE: (im)possible idea? Java?
(02-27-2012 01:46 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  I don't know if it's a good idea so that's why I started this topic.
Is it a good idea to make a kind of Java package? Is it too heavy? And which 'clone' can or should be used? The reason why I'm thinking of this is that there are a lot of small java programs (I was thinking of small mobile applications) some of them are using less than 100K. So who knows what's possible?

I maintain many java packages and you have no idea how many issues java world introduces ... maybe one day with special java repository ... I'm quite sure I don't want any java stuff in the main repo ....
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02-27-2012, 05:20 PM
Post: #3
RE: (im)possible idea? Java?
(02-27-2012 03:49 PM)tavvva Wrote:  I maintain many java packages and you have no idea how many issues java world introduces ... maybe one day with special java repository ... I'm quite sure I don't want any java stuff in the main repo ....

Hehe you're right I don't know how many issues it gives, that's why I'm asking it as a 'dumb' user Tongue Big Grin
I know that it isn't light (at least the original version isn't), but there are alternatives. And I honestly don't know how many (and lighter) forks are available and what's possible with that. It's all above my knowledge, otherwise I wouldn't ask Smile

compact Wrote:You doubt is mine. One side thinks "on a light base also heavier programs run better"
The other side thinks: Doesn't Connochaet fill in that gap already ? But this apart from java. More in general.

Yes, that's correct. It's not that I'm missing something important on my Delicate machine. It runs and do the things that I want without any problems, and that's a huge plussign. I can kill Puppy-linux in 2 days without knowing how I did it Tongue (at least I know that I'm good in it). Reason enough to use Delicate Linux, it keeps me and my computer happy and stable Smile But I'm always looking for things that can be useful, so that's why I asked if there is a 'java' that could fit in Delicate.

The main thing about Connochaet is that it's 'libre-only' and I don't wanna be forced to that. I like to have a choice, besides that I like Delicate.

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02-27-2012, 07:39 PM
Post: #4
RE: (im)possible idea? Java?
(02-27-2012 06:41 PM)Compact Wrote:  Assembler sounds better then java for old computers. Java is a pretty high language so by all means "slow".

True, that's why I'm wondering it there is a smaller Java Runtime Engine.
Assembler? That would be awesome but I'm afraid that I have to program a lot of packages myself instead of just download it and run it...
And I'm no programmer...
I don't count BBC-Basic as a real programming language Tongue

compact Wrote:Yeah. I was wondering wether you can/may compile/make packages in Connochaet just like in Arch and Delicate to expand the possibilities ? Do you know that ?

My Linux start was a few years ago with Slitaz. I found it unstable then and went to LXDE and Ubuntu. Wattos was the only aktive distro with that combination at that time. I'm now on Lubuntu. But because of Delicate and Connochaet I may be making the move to Arch too. I just did a netinstall to try. A roling release is apealing too.

No, I don't know how to do that with Connochaetos.
I've read about the Libre stuff and I like to have a choice to install software (Libre or not), so I decided that I don't install it. Don't let there be a misunderstanding I like Libre software, but if...

My linux start was in '99 with Suse and after that I've seen a lot of distros. Mostly my system was dualboot (kids went to school, and they used word). On older systems I've tried a lot of mini-distos, A few years ago I decided to drop the entire Microsoft thing and none of my systems are using it.One computer is running Debian Squeeze, command line installation with openbox installed. And others have Ubuntu and Xubuntu installed, those are in use by the kids (mainly named as 'Minecraft Consoles'). The rest is in my signature. If you're looking at Arch, perhaps Archbang may be interesting. It's minimal too. I've played with it and I liked it Smile

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02-28-2012, 06:40 PM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2012 06:52 PM by tavvva.)
Post: #5
RE: (im)possible idea? Java?
(02-27-2012 07:39 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  I don't count BBC-Basic as a real programming language Tongue

Why not? All basics I've ever tried were prety powerful. GFABASIC for ATARI ST had a compiler and the target code was pretty fast. I created several games in that (playing MODs and having a nice graphics .... non-blocking reading from keyboard and joystick ... low level bios calls .... everything I ever wanted for all my apps). It has just a different syntax, but as it covers all constructions programmers could ever use, I wouldn't discriminate any basic. I don't know BBC-Basic, but if it has no limitation in low level calls, then it can be called a "real programming language" without worries. I quickly checked the docs an it seems it has a "SYS" call for accessing the underlying API. It can apparently call also machine code subroutines and that's second very powerfull ability.


(02-27-2012 07:39 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  few years ago I decided to drop the entire Microsoft thing and none of my systems are using it.One computer is running Debian Squeeze, command line installation with openbox installed. And others have Ubuntu and Xubuntu installed, those are in use by the kids (mainly named as 'Minecraft Consoles'). The rest is in my signature. If you're looking at Arch, perhaps Archbang may be interesting. It's minimal too. I've played with it and I liked it Smile

Good :] My mom, father and grandma use linux without signs of problems, so why children wouldn't? :]
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02-28-2012, 10:36 PM
Post: #6
RE: (im)possible idea? Java?
(02-28-2012 06:40 PM)tavvva Wrote:  
(02-27-2012 07:39 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  I don't count BBC-Basic as a real programming language Tongue

Why not? All basics I've ever tried were prety powerful. GFABASIC for ATARI ST had a compiler and the target code was pretty fast. I created several games in that (playing MODs and having a nice graphics .... non-blocking reading from keyboard and joystick ... low level bios calls .... everything I ever wanted for all my apps). It has just a different syntax, but as it covers all constructions programmers could ever use, I wouldn't discriminate any basic. I don't know BBC-Basic, but if it has no limitation in low level calls, then it can be called a "real programming language" without worries. I quickly checked the docs an it seems it has a "SYS" call for accessing the underlying API. It can apparently call also machine code subroutines and that's second very powerfull ability.

BBC-Basic is perhaps the weirdest BASIC for homecomputers. It has for instance an inline 6502 assembler and you could use it inside your BASIC program. So you can imagine that some listings are pretty weird :] My oldfashioned schoolteacher considered that BASIC ain't a programming language, perhaps to much COBOL or so? I had never a change to show him a BBC-BASIC listing (with inline Assembler ), that would be something :]
It was a very nice BASIC, and with good documentation (which was needed, because it wasn't a populair machine in the Netherlands). So after a while I've made my own animations and little games. Most graphics and sprites were created during the schoollessons, the teacher couldn't say that I wasn't busy with geometric or algebra :] All in BASIC, Assembler was too difficult.

Those where the days, 32k and a datarecorder. It was before I owned other 8-bit machines (C64, MSX 1 & 2, Sharp MZ 800 and Atari 130XE). I believe that the Spectrum and Sharp were populair in the Czech republic (I believe that they build they're own and improved Spectrum clones). I still have GFABASIC for the ATARI ST and I don't know it for sure but I believe that STOS must be somewhere too. But so many computers and little time (besides the ST I had an Amiga 500 too, which is later replaced by the A1200)


(02-27-2012 07:39 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  Good :] My mom, father and grandma use linux without signs of problems, so why children wouldn't? :]

My dad his last machine was multi-boot, I've made it that way because a smaller Linux distro was faster than his Win XP. He hated to wait :]
My dad died in 2010, otherwise I'm pretty sure that his system was singleboot and Linux only.

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02-28-2012, 11:49 PM (This post was last modified: 02-29-2012 12:05 AM by tavvva.)
Post: #7
RE: (im)possible idea? Java?
(02-28-2012 10:36 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  Atari 130XE ...

one of my friends owned this piece :] we were using it for math homework cheating when we were on the elementary school Big Grin Everybody had to fill a table with results of basic math operators. We just gave the computer two lines of numbers and it gave us the whole table full of results in a second.

(02-28-2012 10:36 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  I believe that the Spectrum and Sharp were populair in the Czech republic (I believe that they build they're own and improved Spectrum clones).

Yeah .... didaktik Big Grin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didaktik

Really nice and small one. It could be called 'netbook' if it had an LCD display Big Grin

(02-28-2012 10:36 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  I still have GFABASIC for the ATARI ST and I don't know it for sure but I believe that STOS must be somewhere too. But so many computers and little time

I really need to find a working monitor :]

(02-28-2012 10:36 PM)nl2stk Wrote:  My dad his last machine was multi-boot, I've made it that way because a smaller Linux distro was faster than his Win XP. He hated to wait :]
My dad died in 2010, otherwise I'm pretty sure that his system was singleboot and Linux only.

Sorry to read that.
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02-29-2012, 12:25 PM
Post: #8
RE: (im)possible idea? Java?
{quote='Tavvva']
Yeah .... didaktik Big Grin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didaktik
[/quote]

That's the one :]
It's pretty amazing what they can do nowadays with that machines.
The Sharp was a nice machine too (I owned one with a Quick Disc, 2.8 inch floppies).
A couple of friends of mine bought the Atari 600XL, those were cheaper than the 800XL.
They knew that my dad could upgrade it (replacing the TMS memorychips) and it was very 'paperboysalaryfriendly'. The funny thing about it was that the old TMS chips (4416) could be used in the Sharp MZ-800 to upgrade the Video RAM to 32K. So the old memorychips found they're way in other friends MZ computers. A kind of recycling :]

This is the old computer where I started with (BASIC) programming:
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/comp...st=1&c=121

I found Brandy, a BBC BASIC for Linux but it doesn't support graphics or music. I believe that it's pretty useless.

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